1997 Seminar: Intensive Wing Chun Course Q&A – Chu Shong Tin

In 1997 Chu Shong Tin gave an intensive Wing Chun course. Here are the filmed question and answer sessions from the course. This is intended for Wing Chun students who are looking to refine details in their training.

Approx 9 hours in length, covering:

Siu Nim Tao

Chum Kiu

Bil Gee

Single and double Chi Sao

Focusing and more

Customer/3rd Party Review – This review was done by a customer/3rd party and is listed here for you reference only. The views and opinions of the reviewer are not those of Everything Wing Chun and do not necessarily reflect EWC’s views or opinions on the subject matter. It is posted, like all customer reviews, to give you more info on the product and to give you different opinions on a product so that you can make the best decision for yourself about its content. The review is NOT by an EWC employee or contractor and EWC cannot stand by anything said in any customer/3rd party review. Enjoy!

Reviewer: George Hernandez

Date: February 14, 2011

Rating: 5 out of 5 stars

Technical specifications:

Title: Chu Shong Tin – 1997 Wing Chun Intensive Course Disk 1-Siu Nim Tao, Chum Kiu, Q&A

Part one – Siu Nim Tao, Q/A, 1:01:108

Part two – Siu Nim Tao, Chum Kiu, Q/A, 1:08:35

Part three – Chum Kiu, Q/A, 1:01.01

Video Quality: Average

Audio Quality: 2.5 – 3.0 out of 5.0

What It’s About:

Master Chu Shong Tin, conducted a number of seminars on the Wing Chun System, this present series is for the year of 1997. Disk 1, presents the basic principles of the first two forms, Siu Nim Tao and Chum Kiu, followed by a Q&A session with Master Chu and seminar participants.

Comments:

For those persons exploring the Wing Chun system as a novice and for the experienced practitioner, this DVD is an excellent instructional medium. For the beginner, Master Chu describes and demonstrates how important the first form is and why it’s given considerable attention. In his seminar he clearly demonstrates how critical the correct structure in Siu Nim Tao is and how it establishes the foundation for the two remaining forms known as Chum Ku and Bil Jee. He does this exceeding well through example and discussion in showing how body alignment and position as it relates to the target and the movements of the Siu Num Tao form.

I was impressed in how he engaged with his students showing the use of the body’s structure and how it provides the means in overcoming pure strength while utilizing the fundamental posture of Siu Nim Tao. Knowing why this is possible and seeing how it’s done, is vitally important for men and women to understand in applying the basic principles of this first form against someone who is bigger and stronger. His demonstration of showing how the element of relaxation and movement without tension while projecting the “mind force,” enables one to redirect an opponent’s force or power.

The embodiment of this most basic principle offers the opportunity of being placed in an inadvertent position of advantage. Master Chu definitely shows how the force and strength can be used against a stronger opponent. Of course this kind of skill, is not achieved over night, consequently, the necessary stage to acquire this ability requires diligent practice and developing one’s awareness of the “mind force” to its highest level.

Perhaps, a clarification regarding what is called the “mind force”, should be made here, particularly in regard to western practitioners. When I first heard about this idea called the “mind force” I didn’t believe it! Frankly, in the beginning, I put this whole idea on the level of superstition or just as cultural folk lore specific to China. However, if you feel that it doesn’t exist, I strongly suggest that you give yourself the opportunity to learn about the mind/spirit and its relationship to Chi.

For the Chinese, spirit and mind is the same thing…in western thought they are considered separate. From my experience in the Chinese martial arts this is a difficult concept for most westerns to grasp. In western modern psychology the “mind” is considered as the “wetware” of the brain and that it expresses its judgment and actions entirely through higher level cerebral neurological processes.

The whole Idea of Chi; that Chi pervades; flows throughout the entire body, is a concept difficult for westerns to understand, particularly, for the older generation known as “Baby Boomers.” The idea about using “the mind force” is aptly demonstrated throughout all of Master Chu’s Wing Chun Seminar Series. It’s a critical principle, in the application of Wing Chun techniques.

In this DVD seminar series as you move from the Siu Nim Tao to the second form, Chum Kiu, Master Chu, shows how its structure and applications are based on Siu Nim Tao. Throughout, this entire series he continually comes back to the importance of the first form. That should be a hint for the beginner that one should continue to practice, the Siu Nim Tao, even as one learns the more advanced forms of this system!

In this second form, the Chum Kiu, students begin to acquire the skill in “bridging the gap,” and becoming aware of what to do in the initial contact with an opponent. That is, you will see, how power is generated using the “body mass” and focusing on the target. Master Chu effectively shows how power is generated in rotating the body while projecting the “mind force” into the arms and hands. Of course you cannot literally see the mind force being projected, but certainly you can observe the effect when it’s done. He also shows you what happens without the “mind force” being present in applying Wing Chun technique. It’s quite evident when it doesn’t work.

It’s certainly a pleasure to watch a true master teacher work while showing personal interest in how his students learn. During his seminar, he continually asks for feedback from them to make sure that they know what they are doing and understand the principles of Wing Chun involved. You will not be disappointed in acquiring this DVD band in the others that follow. If you are looking for a genuine understanding of the theory behind Wing Chun, here is your opportunity to acquire this knowledge through an exceptional teacher and master of the Wing Chun system.

Reviewer: George Hernandez

Date: February 14, 2011

Rating: 5 out of 5 stars

Technical Specifications:

Title: Chu Shong Tin, 1997 Wing Chun Intensive Course Disk 2-Siu Nim Tao Form, Chum Kiu & Form Bil Gee & Form Single Chi Sao Wooden dummy, Q & A

Part one – Chum Kiu, Bil Jee, Chi Sao, Q/A, 1:01:13

Part two – Siu Nim Tao, Bil Jee, Chi Sao, Q/A, 1:01:31

Part three – Single Chi Sao, Wooden Dummy, Q/A, 1:00:27

Video Quality: Average

Audio Quality: 2.5 – 3.0 out of 5.0

What It’s About:

This DVD is a continuation of the seminar series which Master Chu Shong Tin, presented in Australia of the year 1977 and is the second disk in the series on Wing Chun Kung Fu. In this DVD Master Chun continues with his presentation on the principles of Siu Nim Tao, Chum Kiu and introduces important practical aspects of the Bi Gee or the third form of the Wing Chun system. Master Chu also presents the basics of single Chi Sao and how techniques relate to Wooden Dummy practice.

Comments:

Master Chu continues with his discussion regarding the importance of Siu Nim Tao and how it contributes to the proper development of Chum Kiu applications. He emphasizes how the triangle of the first form enhances performance in the second and how circular movements which are not readily apparent provide the means to pull an opponent off their centerline.

Again, he demonstrates the utility of the “mind force” how it’s used in application while keeping focused on the target which assist in controlling the opponents center while attacking at the same time. He says “the body is always moving forward as it defends, but the hand is always directed to where it wants to go, which is to the target.” The movement and sinking of the elbow is crucial when you punch and as you draw it back while in contact with the opponent’s arm allowing you to control their sense balance and centerline. Master Chu, states, that the movements of the first form with a partner should be done without force or tension, and must be performed slowly at first. If you start out with forceful movements in the beginning, you’ll be working against the principles of the Wing Chun System, and that you’ll likely not gain the sensitivity necessary to utilize and sense the opportunity in using technique.

The Chum Kiu form, again is based on the Siu Nim Tao and its main characteristic is to learn how to use one’s body mass and the “mind force.” “Leaning to rotate the body is the best method of coming into contact with a person,” he said. In fact training in the shifting horse, is done continually over many months and for several hours a day before you practice the actual techniques of Chum Kiu. He further explains that in performing the sequence in chum Kiu you’re actually employing three forces. Chum Ku has the unique application of using one hand against two, while at the same time opening the head and chest region for attack. Throughout the seminar students have the opportunity to ask the master many questions relating to Siu Nim Tao and Chum Kiu applications.

In the latter part of this DVD, Master Chu begins to outline the basic principles related to the Bil Gee from and again emphases’ how Siu Nim Tao and Chum Kiu are the very foundation of the third form. And that its basic purpose is not to move the person as in Chum Kiu per se, but to utilize the third form’s most destructive power. The stable structures which are established in these first two forms are vital in executing the techniques of Bil Gee. They contribute by providing the structure, the execution of body mass and the rotating force.

Master Chu further demonstrates how the knees are like the elbows of the arm, in using them in kicking techniques and how powerful they can be in deflecting a kick or in delivering a sweeping back kick. Although no wooden dummy is present, he does demonstrate how the Monk Jong is used in training and why it’s important as a training tool. He also shows several movements from the Wooden Dummy form as applications, such as the Kuan Sao hand and how effective it can be in defending and attacking at the same time.

The last part of this DVD, gives a brief discussion of the purpose of the Single Chi Sao and how important the position of the hands are in doing this basic practice and in joining hands with a partner. Again he emphasizes the importance of not using force, but the importance of relaxation and the application of the “mind force” in controlling the centerline and in using the techniques of Bong Sao, Tan Sao and Fook Sao and the palm strike in the Single Chi Sao sequence.

Disk two in this series is an excellent companion to the first DVD and will serve as useful means in establishing your understanding of the principles of Wing Chun training and how unique its methods are in the simultaneous application of defense and attack techniques.

Reviewer: George Hernandez

Date: February 15, 2011

Rating: 5 out of 5 stars

Technical Specifications:

Title: Chu Shong Tin, 1997 Wing Chun Intensive Course Disk 3 – Chu Shong Tin, Wooden Dummy, Double Chi Sao Focusing, rolling Hands, Q&A

Part one – Wooden Dummy, Double Chi Sao, Q/A, 1:01:15

Part two – Double Chi Sao, Q/A 0:56:5

Part three – Focusing, Rolling Hands, Q/A, 0:53:35

Video Quality: Average

Audio Quality: 2.5 – 3.0 out of 5.0

Comments:

If you enjoyed the material from the first two disk of the 1997 seminar, you will certainly benefit from this last one in the series. Master Chu provides for the experienced teacher methods which could enhance their explanation of concepts about the forms and applications in the Wing Chun System.

You will see him use a short stick as an instructional tool showing that with the proper structure you can easily move a person off their centerline with very little effort. His pedagogy is superb. In my own case, I had often told my students that Wing Chun depends on structure of the form, and its proper use could provide you with immense power. Just from the pure physics of it! However, at times I had difficulty in developing a visual model where the dynamics of it could be conveyed easily to students. I could demonstrate the technique on them, but that didn’t seem to be enough. Master Chu’s method of teaching will help you solve some of your pedagogical problems if you’re a Wing Chun Sifu or instructor.

One of the most valuable parts of this DVD is to see how the master approaches the dynamics involved in double hand Chi Sao and how important focusing your intent or using the “mind force” principle in your applications. Master Chu shows quite simplicity how these principles in the rolling hands exercise is applied by using a Kuan Sao hand.

One can easily see how the wooden dummy applications “form and fit” to the situation using this hand or any other hand. What is amusing is the wooden dummy techniques are shown, but there are no Mook Jong’s in sight! The students are the Mook Jong’s. Please don’t take that as a derogatory statement! In his seminar, Master Chu performs the Chi Sao with each student and you can readily see how he adjusts to each one and how stable his control and moving structure is in the process. It’s such a delight to see him teach and work.

The Master Chu Seminar series is an excellent investment for any level practitioner; it will certainly reaffirm your knowledge about Wing Chun theory and applications. If you’re a beginner, your learning will accelerate and if you’re an experienced teacher, you will certainly benefit! I seldom give a five star rating out of five, but this series is exceptional.

Content Overview: Chu Shong Tin, 1997 Seminar –Siu Nim Tao, Chum Kiu Q/A – Disc 1

1. Brief history of the founder of Wing Chun: Ng Moy

a. Her contribution toward Chinese Martial Arts.

b. The development of power without muscular force.

2. The Three Forms:

a. Si Nim Tao: It means the “Mind Force.”

i. Establishing Structure, i.e., posture

b. Chum Kiu: First Contact – Using the body mass. (with no force)

i. Rotating the body

c. Be Jee: Generating and focusing all energy toward the fingers.

i. Development of Wing Chun’s most distractive force.

ii. Power expressed through “no strength.”

iii. Most powerful of all three forms

3. Si Nim Tao

a. The foundation of all three forms.

b. Basic form which established structure for all movements.

i. The reason for the basic stance- Ma Bo

c. The value of moving slowly.

d. All movements are in reference to the centerline.

e. The stability in a standing posture.

f. Relaxing and dropping weight from the shoulders.

g. The Sinking Elbow and direction of force, i.e., body mass

h. The differences in ‘stance types’ – why the Siu Nim Tao stance is superior.

4. Master Ch Shong Tin, Provides demonstration of Siu Nim Tao principles.

a. Tai Gong and Relaxation

b. Strength of stance as related to the principles of Physics.

c. Start punching toward your middle or centerline.

d. The principle of the Triangle and moving forward.

5. Question and Answer Session

a. Student questions, For example:

i. Why is it important for the beginner to focus on the centerline?

ii. How are movements related to the concept of the “Mind Force?”

iii. How do you generate the “Mind Force?

iv. Siu Nim Tao posture, Tan Sao and centerline

v. Structure and “Mind Force,”

vi. Using the body mass.

vii. Focusing forward movement in reference to “Hand and Elbow.”

viii. Master Chu demonstrates the basic principles of “Mind Force” and relaxation.

ix. “Don’t use the forearm!”

x. Demonstration of forward pressure and the Fook Sau hand.

xi. “Remember the body force or mass is always moving forward.”

xii. “Remember don’t use muscular force in the beginning.”

6. Chum Kiu Principles

a. Chum Kiu is based on Si Nim Tao.

b. The force or power comes from rotational movement, this is done without muscle.

c. Chum is considered the best method of coming into contact with the person.

d. Practice pivoting in the “shifting horse” for several months and for two hours a day.

e. Follow the centerline when you do the form.

7. Demonstration of the Chum Kiu Applications

a. Using one hand against two.

b. Opening up the person’s body…i.e., targets for attack.

c. Rotation force and circular movement

d. “The Mind Force, Body Mass and Rotation.”

8. Continuation of Chum Kiu Principles – Demonstration of Chum and the “Mind Force.”

a. Demo of Fook Sau hand with muscle—it doesn’t work!

b. Using the “Mind Force” while using different kind of movements together.

c. Demonstration of the Circle in the Tan Sau Hand.

d. Demonstration of the Circle using the Bong Sau Hand.

e. Demonstration of using body mass, defense/attack at same time.

f. All movements in Wing Chun can be used for attack or defense.

9. Demonstration of Principles of Rotation

a. Bong Sau Hand/Wu Sau hand Chum rotation.

b. Lap Sau hand Rotation

c. Lap Sau hand can be used for Defense/attack.

d. Again…all movements in Wing Chun can be used for Defense/Attack.

10. Q&A – Questions are directed toward Chum Kiu applications and principles.

a. Master Chu demonstrates his answers to questions through interaction with his students. This is where a didactic approach falls short…you have to feel the answer not just hear it.

Content Overview: Siu Nim Tao, Chum Ku, Bil Jee, Single Chi Sao, Wooden Dummy, Q&A – Disc 2

1. Even though the disc label states, Siu Nim Tao…the DVD, does start with this topic.

a. Chu Kiu basics

b. Rotation and movement of the legs

c. Point the knee correctly

d. Keeping your balance

e. Kicking and Stepping in.

f. Don’t use muscle it will affect your balance

g. Relax, concentrate on the target.

h. The importance of forward movement.

2. Master Ch’s Demonstration of Chum Kio applications.

a. Kicks and Sweeping Kicks

b. Application of body weight.

c. Keep your balance during the application

d. Kicking and using both arms and hands.

e. Using your center during applications.

3. Master Chu Demonstration of Form

a. Chum Kiu Full form

b. Emphasis on moderate motion without force.

4. Discussion and questions regarding the generation of Wing Chun Force.

a. Power generation in Chum Kiu

b. Motion forward and downward direction.

c. Any movement van be used in projecting the body mass.

d. The element of structure in defense and attack.

e. Importance of focusing on the target.

5. Master Chu Demonstrates the Siu Nim Tao form.

a. Demonstration at moderate speed.

b. Movement and the “Mind Force”

c. Alignment and structure in the form.

d. Emphasizing the Tai Gong.

6. Discussion of the Bil Jee form.

a. Purpose of the Bil Jee form

b. Siu Nim Tao is the Foundation

c. The use of the Stability of structure in the third form.

d. Uniting Structure, Body Mass and Rotational Force

e. Weakness in structure, weakness in application

f. Bil Jee and contacting the center

7. Wooden Dummy. (All demonstrations are done without the Mook Jong; the students serve this purpose).

a. Purpose of the wooden dummy

b. Developing technique.

c. Incorporation of all three forms

d. How to contact the Dummy.

e. Practicing your favorite movements.

f. Moving from the attacking hand.

g. The Gum Sao hand and its complexity.

Content Overview: Wooden Dummy, Double Chi Sao, Q&A, Focusing, Rolling Hands, Q&A – Disc 3

1. The continuation of Chum Liu principles from disc two. (Actually, this first part of the disc is more about Bil Jee!)

a. Use of the hands and stepping pattern.

b. Use of the Bil Jee force.

c. Rotation and Centerline

d. Circular downward motion of the bong sao.

e. Application of the elbow and rotation.

f. The analogy of water in a bowl as it moves.

g. The training of the wrist force.

h. Use of the body mass.

i. Tripping technique using the body mass.

j. The principle of using the relaxed force against muscle.

2. Sticky Hands – Chi Sao Principles.

a. Focusing toward the center.

b. Rotation in the double Chi Sao.

c. Structure points in using the body mass

d. Always defend and attack at the same time.

e. Learning how to strike from the outside circle

f. Bong Sao rotation and the generation of power.

g. The purpose of focusing on your partner.

h. Kuan Sao hand, Tan Sao hand and outside circle.

i. Using one hand to defend and one to attack.

j. How to place your body weight.

k. Using a stick to demonstrate control of the center.

l. the importance of establishing structure and “Mind Force.”

3. Demonstration of attack and being held from behind.

a. It is a position of disadvantage.

4. Basic Focusing Principles.

a. Movement forward and toward the center.

b. Using the first part of the wooden dummy application.

c. Eliminating your partners focus on you-break the centerline.

d. Focusing your movement forward, the outside circle and stepping.

e. Benefit of keeping the back straight.

f. The “Mind Force” and Wing Chun Chi Sao.

g. The eye and its relevance in Chi Sao application

5. Group participation in Chi Sao and demonstration of principles.

a. Demonstration of non-focused action in Chi Sao

b. Demonstration of focused action in Chi Sao.

c. Participants practice principles on each other.

6. Posture, Stance and Force.

a. In fighting the force is directed toward you.

b. The proper stance will redirect the forcing upward.

c. Relaxation is crucial

d. In Tan Sao reaction from the forearm will destroy counter.

e. Focusing the elbow.

f. Learn how to use the circle.

7. Master Chu demonstrates Chi Sao with each student.

a. Demonstration done at full speed.

b. Demonstration done in slow motion.

c. Appreciative remarks made by students for Master Chu’s teaching.

EWC Notes: This is old seminar footage from a VHS Tape (320×240 resolution). The audio and video quality are poor by today’s standards. This footage is offered for it’s rarity and what you can learn from watching and/or listening to the masters. If you can ignore the quality issue you might be able to learn a lot. Please view the sample to see an example of the footage.